RetroBSD

2.11BSD operating system for microcontrollers
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:41 pm 
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As the subject line says, who is using Kermit and how?
Reason: the kermit we have in-tree has an old proprietary license. The good news is that the latest kermit uses a BSD license. Awesome!
I've got the latest kermit built and it works, however, I stripped out huge portions of it. Because it's huge: kermit with all the defaults is over 2MB in size. Mine is about 400K (this is smaller than the current kermit in the tree, incidentally). Most of the things removed are things we don't need: like, Kermit doesn't need to be an FTP and HTTP client (that's what ftp(1) is for), and doesn't need to be an SSH client (as we don't have SSH on LiteBSD yet).
But I also removed the curses-based GUI (which accounts for about 73% of the code in kermit!). I've never used it: I just run
Code:
kermit -r
on the command line to receive a file. I want to know if anyone would be upset if we removed the GUI and forced everyone to use the command line only. There's no reduction in functionality without the GUI.
I am very much in favor of having a BSD licensed kermit in contrib/ as it seems to be the only way to transfer files to/from a LiteBSD board that does not have an Internet connection.

So please respond to this message:
1. If you use kermit
2. If yes, do you use the GUI?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:43 pm 
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I use kermit.

I use it from the command line only. I use it mainly to connect to a kermit instance running on LiteBSD and transfer files backwards and forwards. LiteBSD running in server mode. I only ever use it through serial.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:58 pm 
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Hi Brian,

I don't use kermit [never figured it out]. I do use sz,rz all the time on my retrobsd systems to move files in and out [at 4800 baud]. Works perfectly.

I was thinking that adding a BBS or two to the ICB site might be lots of fun for all of us :).

Lots of fun.

Wiz


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:24 pm 
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I might as well just drop the binary here. Try it if you're a kermit user and let me know if you notice any issues.

wiz: What rz/sz are you using?


Attachments:
kermit.zip [177.19 KiB]
Downloaded 256 times

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:04 am 
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viewtopic.php?f=15&t=37339&hilit=kermit

Using it when working with LiteBSD for uploading binaries/packages and up/dwnl data.
Maybe the new zmodem would be handy too. I use rz/sz with RetroBSD to access the fs (from TeraTerm).

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:52 am 
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OK, but, let's keep this in perspective:
* LiteBSD machines that don't have network access need a way to get data and binaries on/off them.
* It would be beneficial to have something in-base for those machines to transfer data. It does not need to be fast, but it does need to be reliable and well-supported.
* The latest version of Kermit is BSD licensed, reliable, and well-supported, making it easy to say "we'll just toss it in contrib/." Now I can use TeraTerm to transfer data/binaries without a network connection to my Wi-FIRE. And if you're on a *BSD or Linux, you can compile that very same Kermit yourself and transfer with that. Everyone wins!
* The question now is if anyone is using the old (badly licensed) version of Kermit in a way that interferes with upgrading to the latest version. Based on responses and how people are claiming to interact with Kermit, the answer appears to be "no."

If there is a well-licensed ZMODEM implementation for Unix that everyone likes, I'd be happy to have the conversation about whether or not we should replace Kermit with ZMODEM. But I have not found such a ZMODEM implementation. (And remember: you can use Kermit to upload the zmtx-zmrx package or any other ZMODEM suite to your machine; then you can use rz/sz instead. But that's different from "what can and should we provide in base.")

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:16 am 
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Hi Brian,

Which version of sz,rz? I don't know.

The one that came with RetroBSD on the PIC32 side and the one that came with minicom under Knoppix on the X86 side.

I wrote myself some directions so I wouldn't forget how to do it. These are reproduced below.

I notice that these directions do not work in the host -> LiteBSD direction with serial VIA USB. Apparently the flow control with USB is broken? Also, baud rate does not matter when using serial via USB to LiteBSD board [as I would expect].

Hope this helps :)

Lots of fun :)

Wiz


9/27/2012

using minicom to talk to retrobsd
4800 baud serial port


sending from retro -> host

to retro type: sz return*

sends return, return.rx to current directory on host


sending from host -> retro

1. ^a z o -> set upload directory to /jmhwork or whereever
2. ^a z s, select zmodem, then select (space bar) file(s) to send
3. hit enter.
4. file(s) are sent


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:55 am 
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I think zmodem has some issues around patents that prevent it being truly free. There are implementations of it but, like lame in the mp3 world, they can't be commercially used without paying royalties or something. Or that was my understanding when I was trying to find an implementation for Java.

Sent from my SM-T555 using Tapatalk

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:13 am 
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The term of a patent is 10-20y max :)
Code:
 The ZMODEM Inter Application   File Transfer Protocol

               Chuck Forsberg

            Omen   Technology Inc


             ABSTRACT



The ZMODEM file   transfer protocol provides reliable file and command
transfers with complete   END-TO-END data   integrity between application
programs.  ZMODEM's 32 bit CRC protects   against   errors that continue to
sneak into even   the most advanced networks.

..

ZMODEM was developed for the public domain under a Telenet contract.  The
ZMODEM protocol   descriptions and the Unix rz/sz   program   source code are
public domain.   No licensing, trademark, or copyright restrictions apply
to the use of the protocol, the   Unix rz/sz source code and the ZMODEM
name.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:33 am 
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Hi Matt,

It amazes me how paranoid we all are [including me] of all the parasites.

Whether we talk about patent lawyers, accountants, or burocrats of various types, the angry people of the world sure don't help make the world a better place for us few who are really doing the work !

Thanks to Pito for trying to cast some common sense on the scene.

I like what Steve Solomon says in the epilogue in his latest book [page 285 - the intelligent gardener].

"...I see that many of our current social problems would also vanish by themselves, if only the mass average health of people were uplifted."

Steve Solomon does the soilandhealth.org website. Lots of great reading on it and he is a great fellow :).

Lots of fun :).

Wiz


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:53 pm 
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I updated kermit.
There are no BSD licensed standalone XMODEM/YMODEM/ZMODEM implementations out there. Or if there are, I cannot find them. Someone here might consider writing one. Remember too that LiteBSD has a port/package of zmtx-zmrx, which implements the ZMODEM protocol. So you can use kermit to transfer the zmtx-zmrx package to your LiteBSD machine, then use ZMODEM from that point onward.

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